I wrote the article and I was one of the ones threatened. The petitioners were careful to cancel a lot of the posts on Deja News before the hearing. Here ares ome made by "son-of-a-bert@my-deja.com." The context and content, we believe, clearly demonstrate that they must be from petitioner David Hobbs. 6/10/99, 12:01 p.m. 
Deja.com message: Re: OFF TOPIC and LOUD Stop the threats! "I'd love to give you a shot in the gut to see if you are like Homer Simpson. ... As I said before, keep an eye out. That's giving you fair warning. Something will happen to you and Bert, I promise. When I cannot say, but you will know when it happens, and you will know why when judgment day comes." Same poster, date, 12:06 p.n. Deja.com message: Re: OFF TOPIC and LOUD Stop the threats! "Can I add pain and suffering? ... I think I'll take a picture of your facial expression when you finally get what you deserve and post it here for all to see." Same poster, date, 4:48 p.m. Deja.com message: Re: Bert's family life "But Bert deserves what is coming to him, so does him buttmante Scott. ... If he thinks he can get away with this and not have some type of retaliation happen to him, others around him, his busines and private life he is dreaming." boots@ general.net 6/9/99, 12:07 p.m. (Petitioner David Hobbs posting under his own name) Ready to move too, Bert? It probably would be in your families best interest, seeing as controvrsial you have been here. Heaven forbid, something terrible ever happened to innocent parties associated to you. That would be awful."
These quotes are from the petitioners, the ones who claimed they were terrorized and needed anti-harassment protection.
But the judge was persuaded mainly because the respondent, Scott, had a gun. She did not find Scott had made threats, but that the flame war could escalate.
Prior to the hearing I had also sought an anti-harassment order, but Det. Shirey refused to take my complaint or answer my e-mail. Details are at: http://www.menweb.org/shirey.htm
I left these details out of the article I wrote, for two reasons. First, I didn't want to get into "Who struck John," who made threats and who was credible. Second, and more important, these details are not, IMHO, relevant to the issue of the overbroad order.
Prior to David Hobbs' threats, he had contacted ski manufacturer K2, for whom Scott moderated a newsgroup on their Web site. As a result of Hobbs' efforts, Scott lost that position. Apparently in preparation for the hearing Hobbs removed a large number of his posts from Deja-News, including the one where he admitted doing this. (Example: follow this link and click on messages 1, 19 and 43 in the listing of the thread below the message: Deja.com message: Getting Stalked in Meatspace) But here is a link to a post by Scott, which includes Hobbs' admission that he contacted K2. He claims he took this "first strike" because Scott had threatened to send K2 lawyers after him, although as Scott points out all Scott said was that he talked to his own lawyer about Hobbs' harassment of him.
> Scottie and Bertie,
> I was the one who had to deal with K2 because I was threatened with legal
> action. I wasn't going to sit back and wait to be arrested for something
> I didn't do, so I took first action.
Deja.com message: Re: A question for Bert WAS: Bert == Scott ?
Here are some more posts thrreatening physical violence to Scott Abraham or Bert Hoff:
Posts by petitioner Hobbs threatening respondent Abraham:
son-of-a-bert@my-deja.com 6/9/99 8:14 p.m. Deja.com message: Re: David doesn't get it
I wouldn't be surprised if something happened to you because of your butthugger's actions. I don't think you would be so "tough" in the real world. Want to make a bet that you would shit in your pants if we ever met?
I do know where you live. I know what your ugly face looks like and if I may say so you would be fucking easy to find.
I don't care what you say to brush this off, but I would be worried if I were you. Try laughing this one off, I'd be interested to see what your face looks like when you read this.
son-of-a-bert@my-deja.com 6/10/99 ll:45 a.m. Deja.com message: Re: OFF TOPIC and LOUD Stop the threats!
I don't make idle threats like you, just keep that in mind when you look out the window and want to go for a walk.
It's tough to ski when one does not have use of his knees.
If you don't want trouble, I suggest you disappear. A suggestion to stop your insanity ... how about a bullet to your brain?
I don't give a shit what Ted has asked us to do, you and Bert are live targets now. Keep that in your head and you'll be fine.
More posts by petitioner Hobbs threatening author Bert Hoff:
son-of-a-bert@my-deja.com 6/9/99 8:30 p.m. Deja.com message: Re: Getting Stalked in Meatspace
I'd love to see how you react when something does happen to you and how YOUR sense of humor turns out to be.
I'd love to see how paranoid you will become after an incident happens one of these days or nights.
Yes, you can laugh this post off, this is cyberspace after all and what the fuck can happen here? NOTHING! But once RL comes into play, the rules change Bertsie, and pain that is only hinted at with words will feel much worse in RL.
Laugh all you want, play the big man for fucking up someone's life in the short term, but believe me (and you won't) when, not if but when, some one comes knocking at your door you better check to make sure who it is first.
Here is some food for thoughts ... how long can you keep you "loved ones" safe?
Think about that and think hard.
You can still make amends before things get out of hand.
When pressed at the hearing, Det. Shirey did not produce any post by Scott making threats, but said it was "implicit" in his posts. The only post she cited to substantiate her claim was a "snowboarder" post made Oct. 30th. Here's a link to that post: Deja.com message: Re: SKIING CONTENT! This followed a post where Scott said: "The problem I have is with boarders who demand that they be given the entire run on their blindside.
Sure, I can live with the fact they can't see where they are going on that side.
But some of them use that reality as if it is a right, cutting across runs in wide turns with no concern for anyone else on the hill.
If I'm keeping a reasonably tight line, and I'm going to end up in the same spot, I have as much right to that real estate as they do.
Yeah, I know enough about boarding to generally give them a wide berth and stay away from the blindside.
But there is another sign to the coin: the arrogance of some boarders, who simply TAKE the space without regard to others, making turns as they wish to, essentially terrorizing the entire hill with their lack of concern for others.
Terror?
Good choice of words.
Because those boards ARE dweebs." (see Deja.com message: Re: SKIING CONTENT! ).
During the proceedings, as Det. Shirey was looking for posts with threats Erik Leonard dug out another post from a year earlier, that Leonard said demonstrated a threat of violence agaiinst a man from Canada we'll call "Jed." When "Jed" found out that the post had been used in the hearing, he posted to rec.skiing.alpine a post which he has given us permission to use the post:
The contact I've had with Scott has caused me to examine myself more
closely than I otherwise might have and I'm a better person for it.
Foremost in my mind is last year's dead snowboarder thread. I have
found that he has ended up returning for the most part what I gave to
him and when I dealt with him honorably and forthrightly that is what
he gave back to me eventually if not immediately. It seems to me that
all of Scott's boast and bluster and fundamental inability to easily
back down was played by a few for their own entertainment and later
revenge. This is not uncommon on usenet but that those antagonists
were key in bringing this war to such a fevered pitch as to end up in
court is shameful ignorance of the consequences of their actions and
the peak of poor sportsmanship. I detest what Scott and his recent
foes have done but I must stand firmly by Scott's freedom of speech.
Any of them, Scott included, could have walked away long before a
landmark violation of free speech was handed down by the court.
Shame.
It is my understanding that in court Erik Leonard quoted an rsa post
of mine and claimed that Scott had threatened me and I was scared of him. Erik Leonard has never spoken for me and never will. The truth is that I was the one who initiated the threat and have never been in fear of Scott Abraham. Scott is a large man and I'm just as happy not to have confronted him physically but this does not constitute fear. In any case further dealing with Scott on rsa I realized that he was more interested in talk and that in my case reference to physical violence was in my opinion just that, only talk. But then I never did him any harm as did some.
I am not inclined to take sides in this disgrace but when I one person
being gagged by the courts I have to say that it is wrong. You were
all equally crazy and malicious in this and if a gag order is correct
then it should apply to all the combatants.
In the Jeremiah post from October 1998, Deja.com message: Re: Dumbfucks Return for the Winter, if you follow the thread back, you will see that Jeremiah had threatened to take Scott on in a fight, and Anthea Kerrison from Australia egged Jeremiah on.
> > PS... I'll be at Taos Ski Valley every day this winter, come see me and
> > I'll either buy you a beer or beat the shit out of you- your choice.
>
> chuckle! The beer he might use as hair shampoo.
> You could sell tickets for the fight.
> Though it'd be of short duration, I suspect.
The reaction of another poster, "Ugly Tim"?
>yer pal,
>Jeremiah C. Baumann, just another dumbfuck to TB
>PS... I'll be at Taos Ski Valley every day this winter, come see me and
>I'll either buy you a beer or beat the shit out of you- your choice.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Mmmmm, complains about Mr tough guy and then threatens violence. Now that
would make you, ah lets see now, oh thats right a Hypocrite.
But that is what you would come to expect from some redneck dumbfuck.
Note: If you find posts you think should be referenced on this page, that you think demonstrate that respondent Abraham made threats, please let us know and we'll reference them. Det. Shirey could not find any, aside from the snowboarder post and "Living Under the Threat of Death," but maybe you will have more luck.
Posts submitted as presenting threats: Participants in the Usenet newsgroup rec.skiing.alpine have submitted posts they feel embody "threats." The first is from September, 1997, in a 73-post thread "RSA's Continued Self-Destruction." The man who reports whyat he considers threats states that he trolled Mr. Abraham. Here are the threats alleged, and the contexts in which they occurred.
