Usenet SOC.FEMINISM Rejects Announcement

In order to stimulate discussion between pro-feminists and the "mythopoetic" men's movement, M.E.N. Magazine posted an announcement in the Internet Usegroups SOC.MEN and SOC.FEMINISM about call to the men's movement from a pro-feminist, and a response which seeks to further the dialog. The announcement was rejected by the moderator of the SOC.FEMINISM Usenet group.

Below, we present the announcement, the rejection letter, and the reply from the editor of M.E.N. Magazine.

Mike Dash, co-founder of Seattle Men against Sexual Harassment (SMASH) and a member of Seattle NOW, who is also active in mythopoetic Men's Work, issued a call in our November issue for men to become more activist.

This precipitated a thoughtful response from Wahhab Baldwin:

"In the November issue of M.E.N. Magazine, Mike Dash attempted to start

a dialog between the mythopoetic and pro-feminist arms of the men's movement.

I would like to accept his offer and further that dialog by

responding to his article. In the process I hope to shed more light than heat on the issues involved."

...

"I have a vision of women who honor the feminine, who would be happy to work with and support those of us men who are working to honor the masculine. Creating this harmonious polarity would strengthen us all and bypass the isolating antagonisms of self-victimizing, blame, and guilt. Together we could create families and workplaces which nurture their members and slowly heal our culture. ... I am convinced that developing my authentic masculine voice is the most effective healing action which I can take at this time, both for myself and for

my society."

I invite you to visit our magark on the Web, at: http://www.menweb.org/ (

And to respond to their comments.

Bert

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Bert H. Hoff

"The World Needs a Man's Heart" +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=

Organization: Disorganized in Orange County, CA

From: Cindy Tittle Moore

Subject: rejection: Re: Discussion of pro-feminist and mythopoetic men links Date: Thu, 01 Dec 94 13:44:56 -0800

Sender: tittle@netcom.com

I think you need to explain far more clearly why a paragraph like

>"I have a vision of women who honor the feminine, who would be happy to

>work with and support those of us men who are working to honor the

>masculine. Creating this harmonious polarity would strengthen us all

>and bypass the isolating antagonisms of self-victimizing, blame, and

>guilt. Together we could create families and workplaces which nurture

>their members and slowly heal our culture. ...

isn't something totally reactionary. It sounds like a call to return to 1950. I've rejected this, but if you want to rewrite, feel free.

--Cindy

announcement of a article by a pro-feminist and a reply which seeks to further the dialog. I see the series, and reader responses to it, as a real opportunity to deepen the dialog between feminists, pro-feminists, and men doing mythopoetic men's work.

We have always felt that this dialog is important. That is why we have featured interviews with Jungian psychologists Marion Woodman and Clarissa Pinkola Estes on our front pages. Our interview with Aaron Kipnis and Elizabeth Herron, authors of GENDER WAR, GENDER PEACE, was important enough to span three issues.

The paragraph to which you take exception speaks of women who honor the feminine supporting men who honor the masculine. I was surprised to see you characterize this as a reactionary return to the 50s. I suspect you may be confusing honoring the masculine with kow-towing to the patriarchy.

In our interview with her, Marion Woodman had no difficulty separating the masculine from the patriarchy and honoring the masculine. She goes farther, I think, saying it is necessary for women to honor the masculine in themselves, and for men to honor the feminine in themselves. We can then find ways to honor each other. This point is powerfully and dramatically presented in the Applewood six-part videotape series she did with Robert Bly, ON MEN AND WOMEN.

I hope that we men can honor the feminine, and that women can find ways to honor the masculine even while rejecting the patriarchy. I find the SOC.FEMINISM Usenet group to have thoughtful, intelligent discussion, something I find all to rare in the unmoderated Usenet groups. I am deeply sorry that we will not have the benefit of the contributions of your readers as the dialog deepens.

Sincerely,

Bert H. Hoff,

Editor

P.S. I have taken the liberty of correcting a typo on the Subject- line of my message, and to clarify Mike Dash's affiliations with Seattle feminists.

cc: Mike Dash

Wahhab Baldwin